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Forum:Oceana State Council
__NEWSECTIONLINK__ Welcome / Witeate Alright, let's set up this thing already :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 18:13, August 1, 2013 (UTC) :Mmm.. Just noticed I've got nearly an absolute majority (64%) :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 18:21, August 1, 2013 (UTC) ::Woo! 1 seat! :L Hoffmann KunarianTALK 19:01, August 1, 2013 (UTC) :::Yes, I've always been very generous --OuWTBsjrief-mich 06:17, August 2, 2013 (UTC) Fixing and expanding the current Chapter 2: Regulations concerning construction I might as well pass this without your approval, but still I consider it better to consult you guys for an opinion first :P Comments / Komentar If you can't read the Oshenna version, I also made an English version especially for you guys :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 07:41, August 2, 2013 (UTC) Considering environmentalism shouldn't there be a longer period in which a Governor can refuse a planning permission in Article 1? And in Article 1 section 3, shouldn't the owner of the property (if it is a private owner) to be demolished give the Governor a weeks (or less?) notice before it occurs so the Governor can understand why and what is going on along with giving the chance to protest the demolition or not. Why are buildings constructed before 1930 considered to need protection? Hoffmann KunarianTALK 13:14, August 2, 2013 (UTC) :@environmentalism: well, I've actually done that for practical reasons. On-wiki, a week time is rather much. If someone creates, let's say, a farm in Dubnitz. Should he have to wait a month before he's sure it ain't deleted? :@1.3: so the Governor can understand why and what is going on along with giving the chance to protest the demolition or not > I don't really understand this. Especially the why and what is going on along with ... part :P :@1930: they don't háve to be protected, it is just that in case the building is put forward for monumental state, it is a criterium that says it should get it. For reasons of continuity, people feel at home in their neighborhood, and the oldest buildings typically carry an emotional value to the local people (and not all Oceana people per se). Therefore we should consider this a criterium. --OuWTBsjrief-mich 14:12, August 2, 2013 (UTC) :::Although I believe all matters from now on should be put to all respective state councils, I'm glad you did :p even though you do have a large majority and don't really need to propose it to us one voters :P. I approve of the changes.Marcus/Michael Villanova 14:19, August 2, 2013 (UTC) ::::I know, but I prefer not to be a dictator. If everybody says it's a bad idea; it probably is :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 14:32, August 2, 2013 (UTC) :::::Heh. :L anyways seems alright, about 1.3: what I meant was they should have to notify the Governor, as a matter of formality and to keep track of who's wanting to demolish what and where. Hoffmann KunarianTALK 14:34, August 2, 2013 (UTC) ::::::Well, they should always ask the governor, cuz without permission they can not demolish it. So, I think it works just fine. As long as the governor does not say it's okay, it is not okay :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 09:14, August 5, 2013 (UTC) It is good I think! Bart K (talk) 16:59, August 3, 2013 (UTC) Vote / Lasovating * 15 seats/saytels. --OuWTBsjrief-mich 13:45, August 6, 2013 (UTC) * 1 seat/seat Marcus/Michael Villanova 13:47, August 6, 2013 (UTC) (does it matter if I vote even xD :P) *:Not really, but I appreciate your efforts :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 13:49, August 6, 2013 (UTC) ACCEPTED / EVIKELDATTEN State Councillor Order / Desqueráterlista Yes, Kunar always has the best ideas first :P Anyway, we need a SCO too. Please add to the following list: * Conservative Christian Party of Lovia: *# Oos Wes Ilava *# Michael Cromwood *# George Hlond *# Jonathan Kelmný *# Flint Kojdova *# Harry Ský-Hrád * Party New Oceana: *# Jonas Opať *# Maria Westhorn *# Mitchell Creep *# Karl Lamentier * Parti fo Nesavicelost 'Oshenna: *# Petar Hustróva *# Boy Whithdonck *# Heyl Hrádske *# Viktor Ludovik Lenka * Natsionalistiski Parti 'Oshenna: *# Thom Shadenki *# Ludovik Umachist *# Ron Dzalki *# Margret Bača * Limburgish Minority Party: *# Lambaer Maose *# Joes van Lin *# Truu Windjhoeare-Löbber * Reformed Traditional Party: *# Levi Smithsky * Social Liberal Party: *# Petr Gambrin * Positive Lovia: *# Julian Atkey * Konservatni an Natsionalistiski Parti 'Oshenna: *# Edward Cromwood We're complete now :) --OuWTBsjrief-mich 08:30, August 5, 2013 (UTC) Precision within Chapter 1; Article 2: State Government Changes in bold. Comments / Komentar In order to make State Elections more local, I've added this. It basically means that a political party running for the State Council should either have "Oceana" or "Oshenna" in its name, or own an office/headquarters in Oshenna (good for the selling of property). --OuWTBsjrief-mich 09:08, August 5, 2013 (UTC) :Seems logical, rules seem good, I'm pro. Hoffmann KunarianTALK 09:40, August 5, 2013 (UTC) ::You know considering all this I'm thinking of making a seperate CNP affiliated part for Oceana, similar to the situation between the CDU and CSU in Germany. Hoffmann KunarianTALK 11:09, August 5, 2013 (UTC) :::More like MCP-PNO and LP-NPO? --OuWTBsjrief-mich 11:26, August 5, 2013 (UTC) ::::Yeah, I'll also be turning one of my representatives in Congress to the party. I think I'll call it something like the "Konservatni an Natsionalistiski Parti 'Oshenna" as to distinguish itself from the more general conservatives and the so called nationalists in the NPO. It'll follow a liberal-ish economic policy line and a conservative-progressive mixed social policy. Hoffmann KunarianTALK 11:34, August 5, 2013 (UTC) :::::What will its stance be on Oceana regionalism/separatism? --OuWTBsjrief-mich 11:44, August 5, 2013 (UTC) ::::::It'd want an autonomous Oceana along with a discussion about the Oceana sections of Sylvania and ask for a vote so that the people in the Oceana sections of Sylvania may be allowed to determine their own future. Hoffmann KunarianTALK 11:56, August 5, 2013 (UTC) :::::::Okay, sounds like a party CCPL could collaborate with :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 12:01, August 5, 2013 (UTC) ::::::::Glad of it. :) Hoffmann KunarianTALK 12:09, August 5, 2013 (UTC) ::::::::::It's now UL-NPO :P and it seems a tad regionalist, but either I'll go pro or abstain :P Marcus/Michael Villanova 14:11, August 5, 2013 (UTC) :::::::::::Ah yeah, probably gonna make that mistake many times still, thanks for correcting though :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 17:07, August 5, 2013 (UTC) :::::::::::::Btw: I like the OceanaCNP logo. I think i'll just vote pro i guess :3 Marcus/Michael Villanova 19:24, August 5, 2013 (UTC) ::::::::::::::Hahah :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 08:19, August 6, 2013 (UTC) Vote / Lasovating * 15 seats/saytels. --OuWTBsjrief-mich 09:39, August 8, 2013 (UTC) * 1 seat. In the hopes that this law ensures Oshenna is governed from Oshenna. Hoffmann KunarianTALK 09:47, August 8, 2013 (UTC) *: That Lew bude i sloboda! :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 09:56, August 8, 2013 (UTC) ACCEPTED / EVIKELDATTEN Protection of local nature In the past several plans were drawn up concerning the protection of our local nature and local heritage. I would like to re-install these in an official way. See also User talk:Intothewild/Oshenna. We still have to draw up plans concerning natural protection; as well as protected sights. For now I would like to start with a plan for the officilization of water body names and natural area names. The list is as follows: Bart K (talk) 14:23, August 22, 2013 (UTC) Comments / Komentar I'll adapt the law in a few secs, so it takes up less room :) --OuWTBsjrief-mich 14:28, August 22, 2013 (UTC) :I'll finish the Oceana names for the rivers and forests later on. --OuWTBsjrief-mich 15:06, August 22, 2013 (UTC) Speaking as Cromwood, this seems like a perfect way to make things official. Hoffmann KunarianTALK 15:19, August 22, 2013 (UTC) :To make what official? :o --OuWTBsjrief-mich 17:25, August 22, 2013 (UTC) ::Never mind, that was just a stupid remark :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 17:25, August 22, 2013 (UTC) ::::::I thought the isle of bratslavia drowned or some junk :P Marcus/Michael Villanova 18:04, August 22, 2013 (UTC) :::::::Yes, it did. But there is still a "sandy area" left :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 18:42, August 22, 2013 (UTC) Vote / Lasovating * 15 seats/saytels. --OuWTBsjrief-mich 14:07, August 23, 2013 (UTC) *... ACCEPTED / EVIKELDATTEN 2014 Plan With elections coming in a few months (October), it might be a good idea to already discuss the future of our state. Just to be sure that we're all on one line when I'm probably no longer Oceana's dictator :P Oceana is the state with the highest unemployment level of Lovia (±10%). While the urban areas cope with a very high unemployment level, up to 14% of East Hills, the rural areas have significantly lower percentages. Therefore, my ambitious plan is to focus on agricultural development, f.e. increased production of grains, wine production, and lavender. In order to reach this goal, several things should be done and we have to take into account several other things; in my opinion: * A neighborhood building stop in Hurbanova and East Hills (at least until 2015). * Several hamlets/villages should be appointed as "growth hamlets", f.e. Sternaw. ** Local traditions and cultures should be safeguarded however. Therefore I propose the building of "peripheral blocks" consisting of several farms near the hamlets, f.e. the place of the former hamlet Ryshembrock could be used for a peripheral block of Bardeyow (a few hundred meters further), which legally still belongs to Bardeyow (so, no need to update the NSO). ** Btw, don't be afraid of my quickly made-up name "growth hamlet"; they will just grow very smoothly :P * Forestal areas should be cleared to make room for agriculture. * An Agricultural School should be set up, where pupils can go to after finish Secundary Education. So, do our candidates for the next SE agree with this? :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 14:27, August 23, 2013 (UTC) Comments / Komentar Considering nobody reacted (either nobody cares, or nobody is going to run in the next Oceana SE :P), I consider this plan doable :P I've reread the constitution and federal law, and there's nothing to stop this legally. Therefore, I consider this ACCEPTED / EVIKELDATTEN as well.--OuWTBsjrief-mich 15:27, September 7, 2013 (UTC) Bus Service Oceana A quick vote :P Bus Service Oceana will now be a state-run company that is to provide transportation by bus in Oceana. Private companies, such as InterBus, are still allowed to continue their services. --OuWTBsjrief-mich 14:36, August 23, 2013 (UTC) Vote / Lasovating * 15 seats/saytels. --OuWTBsjrief-mich 14:36, August 23, 2013 (UTC) * 1 seat Marcus/Michael Villanova 21:57, August 23, 2013 (UTC) Small speech. II object to this on two levels. First, the BSO has too many lines running too frequently for 40,000 people in Oceana it seems like It will be a definite waste of money. Second, if I (and I will run for and win the governorship of Clymene :P) became governor of Clymene i'd nationalize the entire transportation service. (two internal reasons) First being transportation runs better when government controlled and can adapt to give the citizens better service. Also remember most states have Rail, Ferry, Bus and for 200000 people its way too much, so while I'm a huge supporter of Public Transport managing it well is important as well. Second, I already wrote it on InterBus page (cause I knew this was coming) they can't make a profit, at least buy them out entirely so they can give employes severence and maybe go over to the BSO. That's all i'm saying. * 1 seat, I didn't see this, small speech like the above: "BSO is a good idea however I'd prefer if it was run privately as that has been shown to save money not at the detriment of the customer especially when you have a efficient box of regulations to ensure that it's primary concern is the customer otherwise it will face problems. I disagree on the unsupported assertion of my NPO college that government ran transportation is better, personally from experience I understand that transport will run as well as it runs, public or private. Because of this we must work to decrease public costs and increase the ratio of Lovian Dollar to bang for your buck. Additionally I must speak out against any acquisition of Interbus to the BSO, Interbus is a failing private company and the BSO is a public service we should not subsidise the Villanovas because they can't be bothered to try and provide a good service alongside public services. I finish in saying that I will be able to withdraw my objections in the future should we establish proper law in Oceana to ensure that this service is properly administrated and is properly run to provide services to a good standard and to ensure that possibilities to reduce costs are explored. Until then I must say that this is a point on which I feel Oceana is not getting the best deal it could." - Edward Cromwood Hoffmann KunarianTALK 15:38, September 7, 2013 (UTC) ACCEPTED / EVIKELDATTEN Discussion / Slapemortel Well Marcus, there is a reason why I want it this way. First of all, in Oceana, we only have buses and a single railway (to be expanded to two railways). Secondly, this is not about making money, this is about providing services to the rural areas. If you read my plan above, you'll see that I plan to make more use of our rural areas. By making them accessible by providing decent transportation, people might be more convinced to go living at the country-side :) Thirdly, the buses that run through the country-side are not 25-person buses, but smaller 8 to 14 person buses. To your last remark, if you want me to buy out InterBus, that's no problem :) --OuWTBsjrief-mich 08:42, August 24, 2013 (UTC) I meant buy out InterBus for the state :P Marcus/Michael Villanova 15:15, August 24, 2013 (UTC) :Please elaborate on that :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 16:13, August 24, 2013 (UTC) :::Since the public sector now has a monopoly on public transport and willing to take a loss, Interbus cannot survive. Which will go to one of two options. First closing completely and then jobs lost and such and buses and stuff go to waste. Or buy out the Oceana section of InterBus at least we can give our drivers larger severences or transfer over to the OBS. Marcus/Michael Villanova 17:20, August 24, 2013 (UTC) ::::Yes, that was my idea. If we could transfer people/materials from Interbus to BSO, that'd be great :) --OuWTBsjrief-mich 12:36, August 25, 2013 (UTC) ::::::For a modest buyout of course. I'll change the InterBus page :P Marcus/Michael Villanova 14:26, August 25, 2013 (UTC) :::::::Okay :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 14:32, August 25, 2013 (UTC) ::::::::I hope this did not occur. Villanova has been subsidised by the State of Oceana for his own failures, this is not in the interest of Oceana but rather in his own private interests. Hoffmann KunarianTALK 15:40, September 7, 2013 (UTC) ::::::::::When you nationalize an industry you take up all the private institutions so a more powerful government ran monopoly just doesn't run a business into the ground. Doesn't that make any sense? Marcus/Michael Villanova 16:09, September 7, 2013 (UTC) :::::::::::"I disagree, BSO was running different routes and times to InterBus, the important role InterBus played to some Oceana is gone. InterBus should have adapted and ensured it's employees jobs and its service to its customers (the latter it has most certainly failed) rather than its owners using its political contacts in the NPO to line their own pockets. Additionally I believe that if the CCPL does not bring legislation forwards soon concerning the BSO to ensure it operates to certain standards and operates its service in a correct manner then the KNPO will have to take up the mantle for Oceana. Additionally we are missing out on a quite major opportunity to lower unemployment in Oceana by lining the pockets of the Villanovas, whom act against a lot of things many Oceana believe in. Rather than buy out InterBus which should reform it's service and ensure its employees jobs and customers its service, we should employ unemployed Oceana and provide them with the chance to get into the jobs market and get skills and experience. This is a situation where we must put Oceana first and not the interests of special interests." - Edward Cromwood Hoffmann KunarianTALK 16:13, September 7, 2013 (UTC) ::This is the same thing with the Monarchy battle you seem to think our population is around 20 million, it's 200.000 and I think like 40,000 in Oceana. Two competing bus lines would mean one getting one rider a line, and the other getting a decent amount, or each spiltting riders and both failing. I for once would like some actual evidence of "Pocket lineing" you always speak of. You seem to either live in a dimension not on this earth (Stephen Hawking may help you indentify which one) or simply not pay attention. I should warn everyone in the Oceana State Council not to light a match because already the false dramatic acting of the KNPO has led to many straw men being thrown out ASAP. And then he ends with a statement, as always, claiming it knows best and will do the best for (insert state, city, location, whatever or what was put there first before he revises his statements). Marcus/Michael Villanova 16:24, September 7, 2013 (UTC) :::"There are no strawmen here, the main benefactor of a purchase of the Oceana branch of InterBus is the Villanova family, the social effects of this decision must be considered. Additionally there was no statement saying I knew best rather one stating a way forwards that we believe is the right way forwards for Oceana, legislating to properly ensure that BSO has a strong and structured method via which it operates as part of this government would benefit this state government and those in the future. It is not my fault that the KNPO has ideas to go forwards whereas his party has not. And again the member from the NPO seems to fail to see that InterBus was providing different times and routes to the BSO and so there is no reason to merge it into BSO via state purchase, additionally we stand to gain more as a State by not doing so. Going back to my point on how to go forwards, soaking up the currently unemployed Oceana would put much more state money into the hands of national Oceana who need it and would benefit the state by providing skills to our residents. Rather than taking on a company which can survive perfectly on its own we should support our people and give them funding to go forwards and re enter the jobs market as soon as possible." - Edward Cromwood. Hoffmann KunarianTALK 16:39, September 7, 2013 (UTC) (edc) Mmm.. Sort of agree with Marcus though :P I see it as following, InterBus will almost surely go bankrupt if BSO opens its services. This will lead to more unemployment. Therefore, it is best to do it as following: InterBus does either a huge reform, or it ceases its activities in Oceana. Surplus materials (buses, employees, etc) may be transfered to BSO (payment for buses, employees simply move to another employer). This way, we prevent a high number of people losing their jobs, and we prevent materials to be wasted and extra (unnecessary) expenses to be made. Also, it is a sign of good-will to InterBus, which has been active in Oceana for years, and we very much appreciate that. --OuWTBsjrief-mich 16:25, September 7, 2013 (UTC) :"If the CCPL is determined to continue with the purchasing the InterBus of Oceana, the decision should be debated in this chamber and the price we pay should be debated by all members of this council to ensure that we have the best deal. I agree with some of the points that you have made however I still feel that there are better alternatives. At least in the end we shall pay the employees of InterBus better than they ever were under the Villanova family." - Edward Cromwood Hoffmann KunarianTALK 16:39, September 7, 2013 (UTC) ::Alright, Iĺl soon present a plan of purchase :) --OuWTBsjrief-mich 16:42, September 7, 2013 (UTC) :::"I commend the good member of CCPL for his motion." - Edward Cromwood Hoffmann KunarianTALK 16:44, September 7, 2013 (UTC) Plan / Roshver InterBus *Bus Service Oceana - 24 lines, which need approx. 15 per line=360 bus drivers (incl. part-time workers), all can be transfered from InterBus. *From InterBus, we'll buy over 20 middle-sized buses, 10 big-size buses, and 40 small buses; all new buses in perfect state. Total costs: 20×30=600, 10×60=600, 40×15=600, 8+7+8+3-5=16+7-5=1.800.000. *Mechanics, nothing to transfer from IB. *Other materials/parts: roughly 400.000 *Extra grant to IB for its services, and unemployment payments, let's say 300.000 That'd mean we pay InterBus $2.5 million. Sounds reasonable to me. Other purchases: *Workplace and offices, as well as halts have already been installed. *We can buy some older cheap buses from Europe and Mäöres: 10 middle-sized buses for 200.000, 20 small buses for 200.000, 10 family-size cars for transport for 50,000. Total: 2+2+.5=450.000 *Additionally: mechanics to hire, let's say 15, as well as office personel, let's say 10. *Any other purchase, let's say 300,000 *Updating buses 250,000 Total other: $1 million. Total: $3.500.000. All agreed on this? :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 17:08, September 7, 2013 (UTC) :The InterBus buses are going to A) be used and imperfect and B) have InterBus symbols and stuff on them. We should lower how much we pay for them due to the possible changes to both the bus itself structurally as well as superficially. Additionally I'm not aware of what buses InterBus actually has so we'll need to look into that. On the materials/parts, I would feel that InterBus would not have 500,000 worth of materials and parts, closer to 200,000 to 300,000. Other than that I cannot see any problems thus far. Hoffmann KunarianTALK 17:20, September 7, 2013 (UTC) ::Updated. --OuWTBsjrief-mich 17:23, September 7, 2013 (UTC) :::I've just looked into the buses, they seem to have only one type of bus, which seems to be big or medium-size electric buses. This might be good, we can purchase cheaper buses from Europe and Maores and can instead buy 10 big size and 30 middle sized from IB and then 60 small buses and 10 family size cars from Europe/Maores. This'd work out better for IB (considering what they have, we can't buy small buses that don't exist) and for us I do believe. Hoffmann KunarianTALK 17:25, September 7, 2013 (UTC) ::::Well, IB page notes that "most buses" are medium-sized, so I assumed they had others too. I think Marcus should tell us more on what kind of buses we's got in store for us :) --OuWTBsjrief-mich 17:30, September 7, 2013 (UTC) :::::True, I assumed medium and large because the image on the page is of a big-sized bus. :) Hoffmann KunarianTALK 17:40, September 7, 2013 (UTC) ::::::Indeed, so we just have the small buses unaccounted for :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 17:44, September 7, 2013 (UTC) ::::::::SSeems fine. I don't think a vote is needed. Marcus/Michael Villanova 18:30, September 8, 2013 (UTC) :::::::::Okay, then I assume this is ACCEPTED / EVIKELDATTEN :) --OuWTBsjrief-mich 21:15, September 8, 2013 (UTC) Chapter 3: State Responsibilities Yes, we gonna steal ideas from Sylvania again :P Credits go to Kunar. Comments / Komentar I did some adjustments to make it more in-line with Oshenna and CCPL :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 11:34, September 8, 2013 (UTC) "I commend the efforts of CCPL to ensure that Oshenna is not behind in the Lovian race to ensure proper government services to our inhabitants. I do believe that this system shall work well however I feel that there are some slight amendments that should be considered. Firstly in 2.2, there is not clarification as to how a hospital or medical centre will be recognised, then in 3 I feel that there is a danger in the giving of powers of charging of non-inhabitants so freely, or shall this be regulated closely by the health boards to ensure that this benchmark for treatment is not abused. I do feel that charging non-inhabitants is reasonable but maybe we should place a yearly limit once more, although make it higher than the limit for inhabitants." - Edward Cromwood Hoffmann KunarianTALK 11:49, September 8, 2013 (UTC) :I addressed all the issues you've pointed out :) --OuWTBsjrief-mich 11:56, September 8, 2013 (UTC) ::"I can support this bill as it stands however I feel we should wait for comments from the member of the NPO." - Edward Cromwood Hoffmann KunarianTALK 11:58, September 8, 2013 (UTC) ::: :o --OuWTBsjrief-mich 12:01, September 8, 2013 (UTC) "I feel I must raise a point that has been noticed in the Sylvania State Council, that there is a difference between Lovian non-inhabitants and non-Lovian non-inhabitants and that we should distinguish between the two. The former should be treated as is currently described in this bill but I feel that non-Lovians need to be properly charged as we cannot be a world charity with this most vital service. Foriegners who do not pay into our system through taxes must pay into it when they use it. Lovian Citizens, who pay into the Lovian system which we are a part of can be given the leniency that is current described." - Edward Cromwood Hoffmann KunarianTALK 14:01, September 8, 2013 (UTC) :I'll dive into it tomorrow :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 21:13, September 8, 2013 (UTC) ::Better? :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 09:00, September 11, 2013 (UTC) :::Better. :) Hoffmann KunarianTALK 09:35, September 14, 2013 (UTC) I am also in favour of this bill. Bart K (talk) 09:37, September 14, 2013 (UTC) :Okay, that's clear :P --OuWTB 09:51, September 14, 2013 (UTC) Vote / Lasovating * 15 seats/saytels. --OuWTB 09:51, September 14, 2013 (UTC) * 6 seats/sayels. Bart K (talk) 09:55, September 14, 2013 (UTC) * 1 seat Hoffmann KunarianTALK 11:47, September 14, 2013 (UTC) ACCEPTED / EVIKELDATTEN Chapter 3: State Responsibilities; expansion Thank you Kunar for writing my bills. Appreciate it :P Comments / Komentar So, yeah... :P --OuWTB 10:19, September 14, 2013 (UTC) Vote / Lasovating * 15 seats/saytels. --OuWTB 10:31, September 21, 2013 (UTC) ACCEPTED / EVIKELDATTEN Chapter 3: State Responsibilities; expansion 2 Source: Sylvania Comments / Komentar Unlike Sylvania, I decided it would be best to directly charge people for their own consumption of water/use of waste services. People now pay directly for what they use, instead of a general taxation. Also, I provided a more regular recycling system, as well as separate bins for decomposable and non-decomposable goods. --OuWTB 09:32, September 29, 2013 (UTC) Guys, this is gonna be a speedy one, cuz I want it voted in before the new council is inaugurated. If you have any complaints, comments, improvements, please tell me :) --OuWTB 17:59, September 30, 2013 (UTC) It's good. Bart K (talk) 10:38, October 2, 2013 (UTC) :Thanks, I consider that approved then :P --OuWTB 13:58, October 2, 2013 (UTC) Vote / Lasovating * 15 seats/saytels. --OuWTB 13:58, October 2, 2013 (UTC) ACCEPTED / EVIKELDATTEN Autonomy I suggest we start creating plans for Oceana to become an autonomous region within Lovia. We have been suffering all those civil wars for way too long now. It's clear to me that Lovia as a state has failed and it's time for Oceana to take control of its own affaires. --OuWTB 11:06, May 4, 2014 (UTC) :The Konservatni an Natsionalistiski Parti 'Oshenna support this motion. Further I can say that our fellow conservatives in Sylvania support this motion. I would support opening dialogues with any other group that recognises Oceana's autonomy and respects this move. - Edward Cromwood - Hoffmann KunarianTALK 11:44, May 4, 2014 (UTC) ::Would there be plans for independence? or a Barony of Donia? Well I am not sure if states atm have the legal power to declare autonomy, but we could propose a plan in congress to reorganize states into autonomous regions. Lovia as a state hasn't yet failed, but it is clear more state autonomy is needed. HORTON11: • 13:11, May 4, 2014 (UTC) :::And how would you do that? there aren't enough active people in Congress to get through an action that would satisfy even 1/2 of the actives let alone the 2/3rds that you'd need to get anything passed! Hoffmann KunarianTALK 16:52, May 4, 2014 (UTC) ::::There are just about 2/3 of elected congresspeople active and I'm sure many would vote for a proposal to avoid potential violence or conflict. HORTON11: • 17:59, May 4, 2014 (UTC) :::::Any proposal you would make would fall short I would think. Hoffmann KunarianTALK 18:17, May 4, 2014 (UTC) ::::::Would you automatically go against any proposal just cause I made it. I am sure that all active users could come to an agreement. A number of states and regions have expressed a desire for autonomy and a centralized plan would be smoother to implement than several regional bills, which would take some time to go though the many respective (or future) councils. HORTON11: • 18:25, May 4, 2014 (UTC) :::::::No, but I doubt that we collectively, let alone you by yourself, could come to one single agreement. Hoffmann KunarianTALK 19:26, May 4, 2014 (UTC) ::::::::We all would have to compromise. That would be the basis for an agreement. If you are willing to give a little for the common good we can achieve this. HORTON11: • 20:16, May 4, 2014 (UTC) :::::::::I highly doubt that you are willing to give real autonomy or bring real change. Your recent actions have proven that much. Hoffmann KunarianTALK 21:21, May 4, 2014 (UTC) ::::::::::Such hipocrisy! I am the one promoting autonomy, not just for one specific region but for all of Lovia. Either work with me and the rest of the community to bring about real change or keep on denying my support for such actions. HORTON11: • 13:21, May 5, 2014 (UTC) :::::::::::Hipocrisy? do you even know the meaning of the word? You speak as if you speak for the rest of the community, which I can guarantee you do not. I am working towards real change and will not be playing follow the leader with you no more. Hoffmann KunarianTALK 20:56, May 5, 2014 (UTC) ::::::::::::I kinda agree with Horton on the fact that he's always supported the Oshenna autonomy course, for which I'm very thankful. However, the practicality of giving all states higher autonomy is problematic. As it currently stands, only Sylvania and arguably Clymene and Oceana are active enough on the local level to be able to handle a higher degree of self-government. --OuWTB 10:39, May 6, 2014 (UTC) :::::::::::::But see this, it does not have to be a highly complicated local government. We could have users having multiple characters in several states to participate in several regional governments (or at least in those where they might have a residence). And if state councils do become inactive well the governor can stilll pass things on his own, I believe. HORTON11: • 13:06, May 6, 2014 (UTC) ::::::::::::::It is entirely possible that we need local autonomous governments tailored towards the needs of each state instead of trying to apply a blanket style of autonomous government. Hoffmann KunarianTALK 17:32, May 6, 2014 (UTC) :::::::::::::::And who says it has to be blanket-style? Spain was able to establish a system of autonomy at the national level while taking into consideration the specific needs/wants of each community, such as a Basque police, differing civil codes, local languages etc. HORTON11: • 17:57, May 6, 2014 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::Well, the issue is whether it is necessary. Do states like Kings and Clymene have a distinctive political climate in which the differences with the national level are hardly bridgeable? If not, the current situation with State Councils and limited power will work out just fine. --OuWTB 03:18, May 7, 2014 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::Well all states politically have little different from the national government, but it is culturally where there are many differences. Some states may not seem like needing more powers, but on a practical level of being able to establish a good police force or deciding on other matters it would make sense. And there's also the question that a state with less power and freedom than others could be cause for friction later on. :::::::::::::::::And this is also thinking towards the future. HORTON11: • 13:25, May 7, 2014 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::Well, cultural difference influences political ideas. Think about the Catholic influence on politics in Oceana. ::::::::::::::::::I'm not sure whether the friction argument is valid. I don't see Cornwall in an uprise because Wales has more autonomy. --OuWTB 14:26, May 7, 2014 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::::Even so, such Catholic influences would not be overly significant, as Lovian politics has enough of a separation of church and state. And on Cornwall, they are a part of England, and a better comparison would be to another English county or region. Here we are talking about states, all first-level subdivisions of Lovia. HORTON11: • 14:39, May 7, 2014 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::::Not per se. Catholic influences áre in fact significant. Think about abortion, gay marriage, Sundays etc. ::::::::::::::::::::I disagree. Wales has more autonomy than Cornwall, whereas Cornwall has the same kind of autonomy as f.e. Lancashire. The fact that Wales has more autonomy than Cornwall does not trigger any relevant friction. --OuWTB 15:15, May 7, 2014 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::::::But that would not be a valid comparison. We are comparing a state to a state. If Seven has more autonomy/powers than Sylvania, that might cause some issues among Sylvanians, as would something similar between Cornwall and Lancashire. HORTON11: • 15:55, May 7, 2014 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::::::You seem to be missing the point I make. But anyway, I don't think Lancashire will be protesting against Cornwall being more autonomous. --OuWTB 10:16, May 8, 2014 (UTC) Legal requirements These are the legal requirements for Oceana: * Oceana State Law: alternation of chapter 1, article 1.1, 1.3. * Constitution: ** article 3.3 (Oceana people will no longer be able to vote in Federal Elections) ** article 4.1.2 (Constitution will now be written by acceptation of both the Federal Congress and the Oceana State Council; Oceana will have no influence over the Federal Law) ** article 4.1.3 (Oceana will have to build up its own court, which will still fall under the Supreme Court though) ** article 4.2 (creation of the term Autonomous State) ** article 5 (add a clausule for Autonomous State, the current functions in the law do not apply to Oceana) ** article 6.8/6.9 (Lovian Congress will no longer be able to override Oceana State Law, only Supreme Court will; Oceana is required to have a State Council for democratic reasons) ** article 7 (full rewrite to include the Oceana State Council) ** article 9 (inclusion of a State Court in Oceana) ** article 11.5.3 (will no longer fall under the Ministry of Culture) * The Federal Law will no longer be effective in Oceana, which means that current laws should be transported to the Oceana State Law, and later on altered in accordance with the political ideas of the Oceana people. * Discussion: will Oceana still belong to the Kingdom of Lovia? (requirement: Constitution article 1B to be altered or moved to the Federal Law) The constitutional changes are to be voted on in the Second Chamber, with a 67% majority. Oceana State Law changes are to be voted on here with a 51% majority. If either of both organs does not recognize the changes, no changes will be made to any document. --OuWTB 10:35, May 8, 2014 (UTC) : I have a couple of suggestions. On 3.3, why? People who live in overseas/autonomous territories and collectivities of France are able to vote in French elections and send representatives to the French legislature, and I would support Oceana rights to vote for congress. And lastly, if we become a special autonomous territory, should Lovia handle Oceana's foreign affairs and defense, as is done for most territories? I think we should not completely sever ties to Lovia, as there are benefits to being Lovian. And lastly are the niggling issues like citizenship, currency, local police and locall organization; what would we have/adopt those? HORTON11: • 13:40, May 8, 2014 (UTC) ::That is a good one. However, the Federal Law is no longer applying to Oceana, so it would be strange if Oceana was to have influence over it. Maybe we should set up a new separate election in Oceana at the same time the Federal Elections are held, in which a board is elected which has influence over the Constitution and foreign affairs and defense. ::Oceana will keep Lovian citizenship, compare it to Welsh and Scottish people having British citizenship. Oceana will still be a part of Lovia, only with more self-rule. I'd also keep the Lovian dollar for economic reasons, a small country as Oceana will have no benefit from its own coin. ::Oceana will have to adopt a local police and local judicial system. --OuWTB 10:22, May 9, 2014 (UTC) Include Lake Vizzock in Chapter 1, Article 5 / Witshanimke Lake Vizzock in Capitol 1, Stranka 5 I propose to include Lake Vizzock in the Oceana State Law section, concerning water bodies. Bart K (talk) 12:19, March 26, 2015 (UTC) :Pro :) --OuWTB 13:14, March 26, 2015 (UTC) ACCEPTED / EVIKELDATTEN Officialization of Public Transportation Services / Ofishelrobing o'Pyblek Transportation Syvesses As it is they are a part of the Public Services department. I would personally recommend to split it up, but if that is not an option, we could keep it this way. Important to note is that we have the state departments mentioned in the State Law. But we have not written down their function or officialization. I propose to add a chapter to the lawbook on state departments and their respective functions. Bart K (talk) 15:53, April 7, 2015 (UTC) :Yeah, you're right. I'm gonna have to postpone this though, cuz I'm entering a busy period. If you wanna go ahead and write a proposal, you're very welcome to do so :P --OuWTB 15:55, April 7, 2015 (UTC) Proposal Chapter 1: State of Oceana Comments / Komentar Looking good :) Let's wait if someone else's got any remarks/improvements and then we can translate it to Oshenna and accept it! :) --OuWTB 11:42, April 10, 2015 (UTC) I support this completely as I see it now. I'll take a while to consider it and anything else that might be needed. Hoffmann KunarianTALK 11:43, April 10, 2015 (UTC) :Sure :) --OuWTB 11:45, April 10, 2015 (UTC) :Looks good. I would recommend me revising the proposal to have sligltly better grammar and such :P Other than that it's fine. HORTON11: • 12:52, April 10, 2015 (UTC) ::Grammar help is always welcome, so go ahead if you've spotted an error :) --OuWTB 13:00, April 10, 2015 (UTC) So... You guys slept over the grammar and shit already? :P --OuWTB 12:48, April 15, 2015 (UTC) One week has passed: ACCEPTED / EVIKELDATTEN! --OuWTB 12:32, April 22, 2015 (UTC) Shall I create the red links still in this law? Bart K (talk) 14:39, June 10, 2015 (UTC) State archives Maybe we could also mention the state archives, such as the Oceana Capitol/Residential archives, and any fictional historical archives (about mining, Cartolovia, whatever) in the State Law. Especially the residential archives seem to be important as they are used for a referential source during elections. Bart K (talk) 12:43, April 14, 2015 (UTC) :Let me sleep on it :P --OuWTB 12:54, April 14, 2015 (UTC) You got a proposal ready? :o --OuWTB 08:42, May 1, 2015 (UTC) That is if you still alive :o :I do not know where to place this in the law and whether we need a separate State Department for it. Bart K (talk) 15:29, May 2, 2015 (UTC) :: :o --OuWTB 15:32, May 2, 2015 (UTC) :::You haven't got a suggestion? Bart K (talk) 12:47, May 4, 2015 (UTC) ::::You patronizing me? :'( --OuWTB 12:54, May 4, 2015 (UTC) Deer Garden Temple Speaking as a supporter of secular government I cannot but support the refusal to fund the Buddhist temple by the Oceana State Council. However it concerns me that the State Council might be considering funding the building of a church on the grounds. In Oceana where we need housing, where we need jobs and where we need other public services. That the State might consider funding the construction of a church over funding the building of a home or investment in the economy or hiring of a doctor is deeply concerning to the KNPO. I ask that other parties refuse to fund either the temple or the church and instead push for the building of socially rented homes on the site should the temple be forced to close and the State purchase the land. Hoffmann KunarianTALK 01:01, May 6, 2015 (UTC) :CCPL: It is clear that a Buddhist temple in Oceana is not viable. Take a look at the statistics: http://nation.wikia.com/wiki/Oceana_Demographic_Center#Religion - Oceana is the state with the lowest Buddhist population of Lovia. CCPL is not funding any religious projects, unlike what most people think. We would support the building of a megachurch on the site, if it meets building requirements and it can be built without state support on financial matters. CCPL will of course also support construction of social housing or investment in the economy and if we can get this done with collaboration of KNPO, we will surely support any good ideas. --Oos Wes Ilava 09:11, May 6, 2015 (UTC) :OSB: I fully agree with our Conservative Christian partners. We are not trying to get rid of "unchristian" elements, or whatever that may be. We see a problem: namely, a huge building that has no longer a purpose and cannot be easily used for something else in a viable way. Up until now, the only proposal we got was the proposal for building a megachurch, and as Newport does not yet have a church, that project sounds very interesting to us. Locals have indicated the need for a church in their community, and if that goal can be reached by private investments, we would surely support that. Therefore, our proposal would be to combine the two projects: a redevelopment of Newport, in which nature, agriculture, jobs, and community well-being can be combined in one. --Petar Hustróva 09:11, May 6, 2015 (UTC) :RTP: We are not going to cooperate in any project to save this building of Satan. The Deer Garden Temple is a direct attack on God, as it says in Exodus (20: 4) "4 You will not make a carved image nor any stature of what is above the skies, nor of what is below the earth, nor of what is in the waters below the earth." The temple should be razed as soon as possible and the site either closed off for ever of purified by the construction of a Church. --Levi Smithsky 09:11, May 6, 2015 (UTC) ::Haha, I find it hilarious how the CCPL and OSB comments are calm and related to the issue at hand, while the RTP comment is a manic rant. :P 77topaz (talk) 09:58, May 6, 2015 (UTC) ::: :P --OuWTB 10:08, May 6, 2015 (UTC) I reacht an agreement with TM :o: *(chat) Ooswesthoesbes: *# the state of oceana gets the area in newport and can disassemble the building *# the building materials are reused for a new temple to be built near dubnitz and the buddhists can keep the soil on which it is build *# hurb gets a gay bar :o *you okay with it? :o *3:28 TimeMaster yes :P :o --OuWTB 13:30, May 6, 2015 (UTC)